AUSSIEPOLITICS
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

AUSSIEPOLITICS

Discuss Australian politics and other general stuff
 
HomeHome  Latest imagesLatest images  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  

 

 Super vs Stock Market returns

Go down 
2 posters
AuthorMessage
Sprintcyclist




Posts : 61
Join date : 2020-01-11

Super vs Stock Market returns Empty
PostSubject: Re: Super vs Stock Market returns   Super vs Stock Market returns EmptyFri 17 Jan 2020, 8:35 pm

Your picks are ' BHP, Rio Tinto, Evolution Mining, Collins Foods, James Hardie, Orora, Santos, Amcor, Boral, COMMSEC
Back to top Go down
Patriot




Posts : 544
Join date : 2018-08-14

Super vs Stock Market returns Empty
PostSubject: Re: Super vs Stock Market returns   Super vs Stock Market returns EmptyFri 17 Jan 2020, 11:41 am

SC, a person's Super Fund is a special case as it is locked up for so many years.

There are 2 basic strategies with shares:- Go for dividends or buy and sell as share values change.

Super Funds get slack because the person's money is locked up for so long and it takes a fair bit of work to constantly watch the share market and so they just make some sort of balanced investment and leave it as all they really care about is collecting their fees.

Dividends are always nice and the banks are always good as well as the big mining companies like BHP, Rio Tinto, Evolution Mining etc.

Buy and sell is tricky but basically watch for a bad forecast for economic times and doom and gloom and then buy such as Collins Foods, James Hardie, Orora, Santos, Amcor, Boral, etc. You can put a bid in at a low price and then just wait.

COMMSEC is a safe and easy broker. They are not likely to go broke as they are owned by the Commonwealth bank.
Back to top Go down
Sprintcyclist




Posts : 61
Join date : 2020-01-11

Super vs Stock Market returns Empty
PostSubject: Re: Super vs Stock Market returns   Super vs Stock Market returns EmptyFri 17 Jan 2020, 12:09 am

Patriot wrote:
Depending on where a person works he/she may be able to select a super Company.

Some of the Retail Super companies have been downright slack as they see people trapped in their spiders web and can't get out and so they don't really care how well the person's money is going.

Interestingly the Industry Super companies have been doing better but then they are involved in union corruption and harassing big companies etc.

Managing shares is not all that difficult. Don't go for the big kill and keep a balanced portfolio and avoid frivolous stuff.

If one wants to live dangerously then one can venture into the FOREX market but this is very hazardous.

What are your best 5 companies to buy for a super fund ?
Back to top Go down
Patriot




Posts : 544
Join date : 2018-08-14

Super vs Stock Market returns Empty
PostSubject: Re: Super vs Stock Market returns   Super vs Stock Market returns EmptyWed 15 Jan 2020, 6:43 am

Depending on where a person works he/she may be able to select a super Company.

Some of the Retail Super companies have been downright slack as they see people trapped in their spiders web and can't get out and so they don't really care how well the person's money is going.

Interestingly the Industry Super companies have been doing better but then they are involved in union corruption and harassing big companies etc.

Managing shares is not all that difficult. Don't go for the big kill and keep a balanced portfolio and avoid frivolous stuff.

If one wants to live dangerously then one can venture into the FOREX market but this is very hazardous.
Back to top Go down
Sprintcyclist




Posts : 61
Join date : 2020-01-11

Super vs Stock Market returns Empty
PostSubject: Re: Super vs Stock Market returns   Super vs Stock Market returns EmptyTue 14 Jan 2020, 9:09 pm

Patriot wrote:
SC, noble thoughts but the reality is often quite different as the Super people are more concerned about collecting their fees rather than maximizing any member's income.

So their investing policies are often plainly lousy as they simply do not care.

If you can do better than the professionals, many people will want you to invest their money for them.
Back to top Go down
Patriot




Posts : 544
Join date : 2018-08-14

Super vs Stock Market returns Empty
PostSubject: Re: Super vs Stock Market returns   Super vs Stock Market returns EmptySun 12 Jan 2020, 7:09 pm

SC, noble thoughts but the reality is often quite different as the Super people are more concerned about collecting their fees rather than maximizing any member's income.

So their investing policies are often plainly lousy as they simply do not care.
Back to top Go down
Sprintcyclist




Posts : 61
Join date : 2020-01-11

Super vs Stock Market returns Empty
PostSubject: Re: Super vs Stock Market returns   Super vs Stock Market returns EmptySat 11 Jan 2020, 7:36 pm

Your Super is managed by Professionals.

I think professionals will perform better than emotionally involved amateurs almost always
Back to top Go down
Patriot




Posts : 544
Join date : 2018-08-14

Super vs Stock Market returns Empty
PostSubject: Super vs Stock Market returns   Super vs Stock Market returns EmptyThu 09 Jan 2020, 9:06 pm

Which is better - super or manage your money yourself in the stock market ?


This article reckons super is better but The New Daily is owned by Industry Super Holdings so it might be just a little biased!!!!!!


There is another way of looking at it which suggests the share market is better provided you are good at selecting and managing shares.

Stephen Banks
I could be wrong, but I think there is a mistake which changes the outcome. I calculate a stock market final portfolio value 1285% of the initial, which is better than the super's 709.9%.

Using given values, the average annual all ordinaries gain is 5.69%. Getting paid 4% dividends per annum and reinvesting increases the annual return to 9.92% (assuming 100% franking). Thus:

((6907.2 / 1549.9) ^ (1/(2019-1992)) * 1.04) ^ (2019-1992) = (6907.2 / 1549.9) * 1.04 ^ (2019-1992) = 12.85 = 1285%.


Super vs Stock Market returns 79205484_769989443507206_3032436821544927232_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=BwJndUqST0QAX_p92L-&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd7-1

Stephen Banks
A simpler way to think about it is that, due to 4% dividend reinvestment, the number of shares owned increases by 4% each year (assuming 100% franking and ignoring broker commissions). Thus in the final portfolio the number of shares is 288.33% of the initial =1.04^(2019-1992). Multiplying this by the all ordinaries 455.65% gives 1285%. Mathematically these two interpretations are identical.







Why superannuation members shouldn’t be seduced by the siren song of the stockmarket
Rod Myer 10:15pm, Dec 16, 2019 Updated: 8:36pm, Dec 16

Super vs Stock Market returns 1576478424-Getty-Images-1006017202-960x540
Why super fund members should resist the siren calls of the stockmarket. Photo: Getty


It can be tempting to simplistically compare the returns delivered by super funds with stockmarket returns and draw the erroneous conclusion that members could do better there.

It often happens and most recently occurred in The Australian, where finance columnist Alan Kohler compared the returns over five years of a median default fund basket produced by the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (APRA) with the ASX 200 share index.

He found that when management fees are considered, there was no difference in returns.

It’s not a bad barbecue-starter observation, but there’s lot of reasons why it doesn’t address the real situation.

One is about time.

Super is meant to last a lifetime, guide you through life’s ups and downs and deliver you a benefit over 40 or so years of work.

If you do let the figures run you’ll see that five years in super is but the twinkling of an eye and the long term delivers a different reality.

Super vs Stock Market returns 1576471877-graphs-16dec-01

If you stuck a wad of cash in the stockmarket back in 1992, when the compulsory super system started, it would have increased 455.65 per cent by now.

If you add a generous four per cent annual accumulation for dividends reinvested then that translates into another 199.9 per cent gain for a total return of 655.5 per cent on your money.

Now if you compare that to the average return achieved by the median growth or balanced superannuation account, where most Australian super fund members are invested, you find something interesting.

Super vs Stock Market returns Capture

Using the return figures calculated by consultancy Chant West you find that a wad of superannuation cash invested back in 1992 would have grown by a massive 709.9 per cent.

That is significantly above the return you would have gained on the stockmarket, and it would have delivered you far less heart-stopping moments along the way.

That’s because the elastic band that is the stockmarket is not reflected in the value of a balanced super account.

Chant West ran the numbers on two recent downturns, the global financial crisis and the slump late last year and found super funds fell by only about half the share market loss in the GFC and in late 2018.

Super vs Stock Market returns 1576474970-Screen-Shot-2019-12-16-at-4.42.22-pm

The key to successful investing for super funds is diversification.

“Funds invest in diverse options that perform differently in the short term, the medium term and the long term to things like listed shares,” said Matt Linden, deputy CEO of Industry Super Australia. 

Super vs Stock Market returns 1576475908-Screen-Shot-2019-12-16-at-4.57.59-pm

The average balanced fund investment makeup for market leader AustralianSuper looks like this: Total shares are only 55 per cent of the asset base.

The rest of the portfolio includes infrastructure, direct property, loans to companies, fixed interest and cash.

That balance means that when shares fall, super fund values don’t fall by nearly as much.

And stopping those big falls is crucial to protecting super balances as it is harder to make ground on the way up than it is to lose it on the way down.

“If you lose 25 per cent it means your investments have to rise 33 per cent to win back that ground,” said Mano Mohankumar, researcher with Chant West.

The protection of diversification is why super funds were less damaged by the GFC than shares.

There is another factor that must be added into the return equation for the sharemarket.

“You can’t buy the stockmarket without paying fees to someone; someone has to buy it and look after it,” said independent economist Stephen Koukoulas.

Super vs Stock Market returns 1576471883-graphs-16dec-02

“Especially if you were paying in monthly or quarterly instalments like superannuation, the brokerage costs would be very high.”

The Commonwealth’s Future Fund runs up annual charges of 1.623 per cent to shepherd its $166 billion under management and any comparison with the performance of the ASX would have to factor that in.

The Future Fund has only one shareholder to report to.

But super funds must manage millions of accounts, so the costs of that would also have to be added to any notional comparison with ASX returns.

There is also tax, which neither the Future Fund nor notional stockmarket returns need to worry about.

But super members in accumulation phase pay 15 per cent tax on returns inside their accounts and that too would also have to be added in when making a comparison with the ASX.

Given all that, super funds have performed very well for Australians since compulsory superannuation became a reality back in 1992.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/finance/superannuation/2019/12/16/why-super-outdoes-shares/
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





Super vs Stock Market returns Empty
PostSubject: Re: Super vs Stock Market returns   Super vs Stock Market returns Empty

Back to top Go down
 
Super vs Stock Market returns
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Recovered Dutto after black market hoarders
» Super memory is a curse and blessing
» Labor in $400m super boost for women
» The Liberal Party has hit back after its Super Saturday by-election failure

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
AUSSIEPOLITICS :: Australian Politics-
Jump to: