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 Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.

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Veritas

Veritas

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Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Empty
PostSubject: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptyWed 18 Jul 2018, 10:57 am

Trump makes it clear: Australia’s safety is in its own hands
The Australian
July 13, 2018
   
Whatever our verdict on his presidency so far, Donald Trump has got 2½ more years in the world’s biggest job and has every chance of being re-elected. He is the reality we have to work with.

For Australia, Trump has been a good president. Despite a testy initial conversation with Malcolm Turnbull, he has honoured the “very bad deal” his predecessor had made to take boatpeople from Nauru and Manus Island and to settle them in the US.

As a country that’s “paid its dues” for the American alliance, we have been treated with courtesy and respect — but that’s no grounds for complacency in dealing with a transactional president.

As more weighty US allies are likely to find at the NATO summit, Trump is mightily reluctant to help those who don’t pull their weight, even “family” like Britain, Canada and Australia. And who can blame him? America has been the world’s policeman: the guarantor of a modicum of restraint from the world’s despots and fanatics.

No other country has had both the strength and the goodwill for this essential task. And its thanks for seven decades of watchfulness and prodigious expenditure of blood and treasure has been condescension from the intellectuals whose freedom America has protected, and commercial exploitation from competitors that the American-led global order has created.

It’s little wonder that Trump wants trade that’s fair as well as free and it’s little wonder that he’s tired of so-called allies who give sermons from the sidelines while America keeps them safe.

For Trump, “America first” doesn’t mean “only America” — yet. America hasn’t lost its pride, its values or even its sense of “manifest destiny”; it’s just that it’s weary of “pay(ing) any price, bear(ing) any burden … (or) support(ing) any friend … to assure the survival and success of liberty” (in John F. Kennedy’s stirring words) on behalf of countries that aren’t equally committed. Trump is impatient with the liberal internationalism that has shaped US policy for 70 years because he worries it’s been much better for others than it has been for America.

America has disproportionately shouldered the burdens. Others have disproportionately gained the benefits, so enough is enough and there will be no more one-sided alliances.

There are two possible versions of the Trump doctrine that’s evolving. One goes: America might help those who help themselves, but will be more likely to help those who help America. A kinder version might be: they’re your values too, so don’t expect us to be the only ones fighting for them.

Barack Obama spoke beautifully about American values but was always cautious and sometimes slow to stand up for them. On his watch, the rules-based order was already unravelling. Trump is much more honest about the limits of American power. For all the former president’s outspoken high-mindedness on fringe issues such as climate change, Trump’s America is more robust than Obama’s. It’s certainly less apologetic and still ready to use force, so at least for those allies that don’t shirk their responsibilities, Trump’s America should remain a reliable partner. Just don’t expect too much.

A new age is coming. The legions are going home. American values can be relied upon but American help less so. This need not presage a darker time, like Rome’s withdrawal from Britain, but more will be required of the world’s other free countries. Will they step up? That’s the test.

As PM, I wanted to be a welcome change from those visitors to the White House seeking what America could do for them, offering instead what we could do for America. Being America’s partner, as well as its friend, will be even more important now, given Trump’s obsession with reciprocity. Indeed, it may be the only hope of keeping America engaged in troubles that aren’t already its own.

The defence white paper that my government commissioned said Australia’s armed forces should be able to defend our country from any likely aggressor, intervene effectively in a regional conflict and contribute meaningfully to our allies’ military operations around the globe. China’s rapidly growing military strength and the increasing capabilities of other regional countries will inevitably make it much harder to do that than the white paper anticipated.

I fear there will have to be a much greater focus on strategic deterrence, especially if a rogue state like North Korea has long-range nuclear weapons, and especially if the American nuclear shield becomes less reliable. For Australia, obtaining the capacity to shoot down incoming missiles could easily become a multi-billion-dollar necessity. Almost certainly our navy will need routinely to be enlarged and strengthened.

There will almost certainly have to be more of our planes rotating constantly through the Butterworth air base in Malaysia. Our ships and submarines might need to spend more time operating from Singapore, to more readily be where they could be needed.

Can our ships be expected to operate without the air cover that an overstretched America may no longer provide? Can we afford to wait at least 15 years before the first of the next generation of submarines becomes operational — and does it really make sense to take a French nuclear submarine and redesign it for conventional power, to be less potent than it currently is?

My instinct is that acquiring a capacity to strike harder and further and the need to give our country and our armed forces greater protection could soon require military spending well beyond 2 per cent of GDP. Our armed forces need to be more capable of operating independently against even a substantial adversary, because that is what a truly sovereign nation must be prepared to do.

John Curtin’s famous plea to America in the darkest days of World War II actually exposed our ingrained tendency to look to someone else for our protection. When you think of it, what Trump is making clear — to us and to others — is what should always have been screamingly obvious: our nation’s safety now rests in our own hands, far more than in anyone else’s.
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Neferti
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Neferti

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Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptyWed 18 Jul 2018, 6:30 pm

I have several American friends.  Most state that they are Republicans.  However, since Trump was elected they have neither said they like him nor loathe him. They didn't hold back when Obama was the Prez.

I guess the Yanks are suffering in silence ... like we are with Turncoat who is less "conservative" than any other Liberal Party PM.
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Veritas

Veritas

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PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptyWed 18 Jul 2018, 10:24 pm

You could well be right.

I suppose the question for us is do we start spending more on Defence and build up our armed forces.
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Neferti
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PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptySat 21 Jul 2018, 8:30 am

Veritas wrote:
You could well be right.

I suppose the question for us is do we start spending more on Defence and build up our armed forces.

That might work.Very Happy Could help solve the youth unemployment problem. Isn't that what happens in the USA, the Military employs kids who can't get a job elsewhere, despite having a College Degree?
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JollyGreenGiant

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PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptyTue 24 Jul 2018, 3:54 pm

Veritas wrote:
You could well be right.

I suppose the question for us is do we start spending more on Defence and build up our armed forces.

How many "troops" do we have currently? How many are in the Middle East and elsewhere?
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Veritas

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PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptyWed 25 Jul 2018, 9:43 am

Not many...

We certainly don't have enough to defend a Continent as large as Australia.

Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Armed-forces

Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. 20110312_WOC327
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Veritas

Veritas

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Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptyWed 25 Jul 2018, 9:51 am

Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. World-map-top-ten-countries-with-largest-armies
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Veritas

Veritas

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Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptyWed 25 Jul 2018, 10:05 am

Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Figure2.5
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DreamRyder



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Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptyWed 25 Jul 2018, 5:00 pm

Veritas wrote:
Not many...

We certainly don't have enough to defend a Continent as large as Australia.

If you add all our military personnel together.....both active & reserve.....

You couldn't even fill all the seats in the MCG!!!!!!   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Secrets004

ONLY 79,900 personnel in Total

Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Australian_Military_Personnel

Source:  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Defence_Force    


 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel


Last edited by DreamRyder on Wed 25 Jul 2018, 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Neferti
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Neferti

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Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptyWed 25 Jul 2018, 5:16 pm

We need to do something about that!
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DreamRyder



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Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptyWed 25 Jul 2018, 5:26 pm

Neferti wrote:
We need to do something about that!  

Yes we sure do.....Look at the troop sizes for all the major countries in our region ....... we don't even come close. If say Indonesia became our enemy.....thank goodness it won't......but imagine if it did.........we're toast......a couple of weeks at most. Our citizens don't even have firearms enough to help the boys out!! ffs!!!
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Neferti
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PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptyWed 25 Jul 2018, 5:47 pm

Like I said, encourage kids to join the "Military", they will soon learn discipline. It would also ease the youth unemployment problem.
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DreamRyder



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Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptyWed 01 Aug 2018, 9:42 am

Neferti wrote:
I have several American friends.  Most state that they are Republicans.  However, since Trump was elected they have neither said they like him nor loathe him. They didn't hold back when Obama was the Prez.

I guess the Yanks are suffering in silence ... like we are with Turncoat who is less "conservative" than any other Liberal Party PM.

You may also be reading contentment, for it also bears silence. Before wonderful things there also tends to be a silent time in anticipation.

The only suffering might be from the violence & hate being dished out from the Left towards anyone to their Right. Those that preach tolerance, seem to have very little of it for anyone that disagrees with their points of view.
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Neferti
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PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptyWed 01 Aug 2018, 4:03 pm

I have photos of my American email friends wearing one of these. :P

Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Usa_ha10
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Veritas

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PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptySat 04 Aug 2018, 9:03 am

Well here in Australia we need to make Australia safe again.
We need reliable allies and a formidable defence force.
Whatever happened to inventions like Metal Storm? One of the best military weapons ever invented was the Owen Machine Carbine an all Australian invention.

Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Owen-gun
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Veritas

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PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptySat 04 Aug 2018, 9:04 am

Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Owen-diagram
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Neferti
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PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptySat 04 Aug 2018, 9:29 am

It seems to be all about "gender equality" in the Australian Defence Force now. Painting pinkies pink and so forth. Those guns would be too heavy for the girls to use, wouldn't they? Rolling Eyes

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/blogs/tim-blair/pinkies-on-parade/news-story/5cac056598da41712ba00bc186a4b869
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Veritas

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Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptySat 04 Aug 2018, 3:54 pm

Nope they were fairly light and could work in the worst of conditions.

Metal Storm was a company in Qld, that had invented new methods of firing a massive amount of munitions in succession amongst other things. It was supposed to be today's equivalence of the development of the Gatling gun.
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DreamRyder



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Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptySun 05 Aug 2018, 2:09 pm

Veritas wrote:
Nope they were fairly light and could work in the worst of conditions.

Metal Storm was a company in Qld, that had invented new methods of firing a massive amount of munitions in succession amongst other things.  It was supposed to be today's equivalence of the development of the Gatling gun.

I would have to think that it would be eventually modified to use a bottom feeding magazine, rather than top.....as pictured in practical usage, it might hinder target (especially moving) acquisition, as well as giving an adversary something to shoot at....which might spell disaster for the user if hit. Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Imthinkin6
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Veritas

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PostSubject: Re: Where do we stand with US Withdrawal.   Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. EmptySun 05 Aug 2018, 3:48 pm

DreamRyder wrote:
Veritas wrote:
Nope they were fairly light and could work in the worst of conditions.

Metal Storm was a company in Qld, that had invented new methods of firing a massive amount of munitions in succession amongst other things.  It was supposed to be today's equivalence of the development of the Gatling gun.

I would have to think that it would be eventually modified to use a bottom feeding magazine, rather than top.....as pictured in practical usage, it might hinder target (especially moving) acquisition, as well as giving an adversary something to shoot at....which might spell disaster for the user if hit. Where do we stand with US Withdrawal. Imthinkin6

Metal Storm did not develop the Owen.  I suggest you could look it up.
BTW the Owen was the most reliable gun of its type and the magazine did not block the sights.
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