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Veritas

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PostSubject: Multiculturalism in Australia   Fri 20 Jul 2018, 11:31 am

Multiculturalism

Alan Tudge is the Minister for Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs. Below is an edited version of a speech he delivered at the Australia-UK Leadership Forum in London last night.

Funnily enough it seems some politicians do realise there are problems with Multiculturalism in Australia even though they keep talking it up.  The question is, if they know reality is different from their propaganda and fantasy why don't they do something real about it?

It's instructive that the vast majority of comments after this article are against Multiculturalism and they clearly identify the problems with it.


Last edited by Veritas on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Sun 22 Jul 2018, 10:25 am

Border security plus Australian values equals social cohesion
Alan Tudge
The Australian
July 20, 2018

Without social cohesion, economic growth will be constrained; without social cohesion, national security will be put at risk - as residents of London know too well.

But social cohesion is also a goal in its own right. Cohesive societies are ones where there is trust and concern between people; where there is a connectedness. In cohesive societies, people contribute to, as much as take from, the public good. Individuals are treated fairly and with dignity.

So how can social cohesion be maintained during a time of large-scale, diverse immigration?

Australia arguably has been the most successful at doing this.

For decades now, we have welcomed people from around the world and we have largely maintained social harmony in the process. People mix reasonably well and most Australians enjoy the cultural richness that comes from a diverse population. We are an open, welcoming country.

Moreover, newcomers succeed on almost every level: in employment, education, business creation, home ownership. On ­almost every indicator, Australian migrants are achieving at the same rate, if not better than, the home born.

Australia’s achievement is particularly remarkable given the size and diversity of our immigration program. More than 28 per cent of Australians were born overseas; another 21 per cent have a parent born overseas. The proportion of overseas born is more than twice that of Britain and the US.

This is not to say Australia is perfect. Far from it. Some of the challenges to social cohesion we face are similar to those Britain faces, such as ethnic segregation and liberal values being challenged.

There are two factors central to Australia’s success in maintaining social cohesion: careful immigrant selection and an insistence on immigrant integration. We choose who comes. We don’t outsource this choice to people-smugglers and we don’t leave it to chance. Malcolm Turnbull calls our immigration program essentially a recruitment exercise.

Controlling the borders is a prerequisite to being able to select the people that the nation wants.

But strong borders is a policy that is always under pressure from the Left.

Indeed, under the former Labor government our system was unravelled, with tragic consequences — including 1200 deaths at sea. More than 50,000 people arrived unlawfully, many of whose identities we still have not fully resolved.

Having secured our borders, Australia is able to select people to enter the country who want to become Australians, adopt our values and make a contribution to the nation.

We generally have done this well, through an emphasis on skilled migration — making up almost 70 per cent of our permanent migrant intake — and a strict vetting process.

If you cannot control and ­select who comes into your ­nation, then you put your security at risk, do not maximise the economic opportunity and make ­social cohesion harder.

We have a strong expectation of migrant integration. This is built into our multicultural policy. Our model is integrated multiculturalism. It is not an assimilationist model, where people must leave their heritage behind. But neither is it a separatist model, which we have frequently seen in Europe, where people have sometimes brought their entire prac­tices, language and culture and planted them into the new land, with little expectation placed on them to share or mix with the local community.

Separatist multiculturalism is not really multiculturalism at all — it is monoculturalism side-by-side, and can be a formula for conflict and alienation.

Ours is an integrated multiculturalism, involving several mechanisms.

We expect migrants will contribute and participate in the workforce. The nature of our policies has been weighted towards skilled migration. We do not allow migrants to access welfare payments for the first two years, with legislation in the parliament to extend that to four.

We have a challenge with our humanitarian intake in relation to work, in part because I believe we do not place the same high expectations on them to secure employment. We can do better here.

We require English to be learned for many new migrants. And we place an emphasis on Australian values as the glue that holds the nation together. We do this through requiring people to sign a values statement before coming. The weakness of this, however, is that we have few mechanisms to assess people against their signed statement.

Our challenges are made harder today because technology means that a person can communicate easily and cheaply with their birth country or within their diaspora.

In short, a person can more easily live within a language and cultural bubble in suburban Australia.

This is why we are continuing to think about this deeply and work on policies to address issues now, before they get larger. Our ship is slightly veering towards a European separatist multicultural model and we want to pull it back to be firmly on the Australian integrated path.

The obligation to integrate is not burdensome — it’s empowering. Without it, migrants are ­denied the chance to participate fully in their new country and to share in the wealth and opportunity of our vibrant economy.

Ultimately it is our values and national identity, more than anything else, that bind us together. Moreover, they are what makes us wealthy, free and consequently attractive for migrants to want to join our societies.

But in recent decades we have become more passive in defending them. Postmodern thinking, which suggests that no one set of values is better than another, has gained ground. Moreover, identity politics gives cover for practices and behaviours that should be deemed intolerable.

Hence it takes years for some Western countries to even take a strong position against something as barbaric as female genital mutilation. Identity politics can be divisive. It frequently leads to the tyranny of low expectations.

Diversity can be great, but not when it includes those who want sharia and will use violence to achieve their ends.


Similarly, tolerance is generally a good principle, but we should not be tolerant of FGM or child marriage or women being prohibited from learning English, studying or even driving.

Diversity and tolerance, by themselves, are value-free principles. They are positive principles only when they operate within the confines of an agreed set of values that we collectively hold and will not compromise.

The principle of inclusion is equally insufficient. It is of course a good principle, but it implies that all the responsibility is on the host population to “include” the newcomers, when to become a fully integrated society, newly arrived migrants also need to take positive steps.

The most important thing is the values that unite us.

We need to be confident enough in these values to call out practices that are contradictory to them, even if those practices are the “culture” of a particular group.

If we want Australia to continue its multicultural success, we must take active steps now to ­ensure that social cohesion remains strong.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Sun 22 Jul 2018, 1:53 pm

The following comment was censored by THe Australian from their comments section.
It broke no rules...

Well Alan let me tell you, Multiculti is a failure. It is a fraud, a burden, set upon us by a handful of social engineers using the Australian society as their experiment. How many times were we asked if we wanted this policy? Not once. Even the new Australians at the time didn't want it introduced.
We had Assimilation. Where people were expected to become Australians. Just how would they have forgotten where they came from etc, is beyond me. That was never an expectation.
We had Integration. But apparently that wasn't enough. But now you are talking about Integration. You know some people still think Multiculti involves Assimilation... that people think it is just a stepping stone to Assimilation. But hey, you and I both know Assimilation is not the goal or outcome of Multiculti, and it and Integration is not a requirement.
How many times has Multiculturalism been tweaked and fiddled with since its inception? The answer is many, yet still it doesn't work. It doesn't matter that you and Turnbull like saying its a great success etc, etc, but the people at the Multiculti coal-face know the truth. You cannot have a united country and society if its based on division and Multiculturalism in Australia is Cultural Apartheid. Count the enclaves Alan.
The world's largest study on diversity policy showed that it disrupts social harmony and creates isolationism within societies. Not exactly something I think we want.
If you want to be selective about who we let come to Australia, then instead of discriminating on a skills level, we should be looking to people that will fit in with our society and our values. You know as well as I do that both major parties have failed in doing this for quite a while now. Fear of being labelled racist looms large doesn't it? Well I fear for the future of our country. Which was IMO the most egalitarian in the world. A place to be proud of, not suffer the cultural cringe of elitist progressives. Who BTW infest both the major parties.
It is long past time that Multiculturalism was abandoned. Those unhappy about that are welcome to leave and find their place elsewhere in the world. But I can assure you those that love us and our way of life will want to stay. Those are the people we need.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Fri 27 Jul 2018, 10:09 pm

When new peoples come to a new land they have to learn new methods for dealing with interactions.

★ They must communicate.

That means understanding a common language. If the Country they have just migrated to has been around for quite a while, then a common language has probably already been established. It would be incumbent upon the new entrant(s) to learn the established language. They can always use the "old" language amongst their own family unit, but to be successful at learning a new language, the "new" language should replace the "old" as soon as the family members are proficient enough to communicate well enough amongst themselves with it.

★ They must know the Law

Knowing the local law is imperative, & even though most laws will, in general, be similar, knowing exactly what can & can't be done in their new surroundings is an absolute must. Most societies have very little tolerance of people "accidentally" breaking laws out of ignorance.

★ They must find an occupation

Finding work can help a newcomer in many ways beside providing an income to support themselves & their family. They will interact with their fellow workers, so their language skills will benefit, & what they learn they can bring home & share with their family & friends. They can, through social communications, help others sharing what they know, & at the same time also learning from others through their experiences.

Feigning from interaction only causes a social group to cut off from others around them, causing numerous problems, & retarding their own growth in their new "home".

As far as I can see, the type of Multiculturalism I have seen does not & can not benefit individuals in a large society. You end up with ghettos aside ghettos, aside ghettos, each with large differences, areas of contention, & where these ghettos do interact, there is a high likelihood of misunderstandings & resentment. Nationally, this could also pose grave problems, especially with governing, & establishing programs for the common good.

Therefore, I see assimilation as the only viable way for newcomers to form & become an integral part of a greater National identity, & with it blend/incorporate into an existing local society, for the benefit of the greater National Society.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Sat 28 Jul 2018, 8:26 am

DreamRyder wrote:
When new peoples come to a new land they have to learn new methods for dealing with interactions.

★ They must communicate.

★ They must know the Law

★ They must find an occupation

As far as I can see, the type of Multiculturalism I have seen does not & can not benefit individuals in a large society. You end up with ghettos aside ghettos, aside ghettos, each with large differences, areas of contention, & where these ghettos do interact, there is a high likelihood of misunderstandings & resentment. Nationally, this could also pose grave problems, especially with governing, & establishing programs for the common good.

Therefore, I see assimilation as the only viable way for newcomers to form & become an integral part of a greater National identity, & with it blend/incorporate into an existing local society, for the benefit of the greater National Society.

ASSIMILATION is the only way to go.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Wed 15 Aug 2018, 7:50 pm

Refugees are a small portion of total migrant numbers.
A great many don't Integrate.
They don't have to integrate, we have Multiculturalism.
We used to have Integration and before that Assimilation.  
Many during those times even resisted that.


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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Wed 15 Aug 2018, 7:55 pm

By integration are we talking about Refugees joining the welfare queue?

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/refugees-on-welfare-the-real-numbers
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Wed 15 Aug 2018, 9:45 pm

Assimilation/Integration has to occur equally from both the migrants and the host culture. Assimilation/Integration has to be flexible and on the terms of both the migrant and the hosts. Trying to enforce "integration" and make migrants conform is pointless. It will not work. There must be mutual agreement over the issue, there must be acceptance and tolerance. Otherwise you end up with a fascist intolerant society
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Wed 15 Aug 2018, 9:56 pm

The Host culture is the HOST....  we are hosting them.
Allowing them to come here.
Many Refugees do not wish to stay here and seek only to stay here until a problem at "home" is resolved.

Therefore centering a discussion on refugees, which are a minority at the best of times in immigration numbers, when the topic is Multiculturalism is largely moot.

As for Integration etc being a mutual consent/agreement issue.  It totally is...  if migrants do not wish to be Australians then why come here in the first place?

Calling a society intolerant and facist is problematic and wrong. These are individual traits.


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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Wed 15 Aug 2018, 10:01 pm

Refugees come here to seek shelter. We provide it because we, as a society are merciful. Something too many forget. Refugees are a tiny minority in the total number of immigrants that we accept. The overwhelming majority if immigrants are law abiding, well behaved, rational individuals who just want a better life for themselves and their families. Something that is all too often forgotten in this whole "debate". They just want to be allowed to live here. We, as a society welcome them. Doesn't matter what the colour of their skin is, what their culture is, what their beliefs are - they have decided to become Australian. Something you need to remember before you decide to condemn them wholesale the way you do, in post after post. Tsk, tsk.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Thu 16 Aug 2018, 9:07 am

"Too many" have amnesia according to you.  Do you honestly think that is factual.
Both major parties are responsible for our Refugee treatment, not the populous at large.

The "overwhelming majority"  of immigrants are not Refugees.

"We" as a society do not in fact "welcome them".  "We" have no say in their numbers or where they come from.  But Australians are tolerant and fair minded by nature, and our culture and society has tended to be laid-back and accepting.

"We" do not have the racial problems of a USA or speak in colours.  "We" do not have the problems of a British class system.

Under Multiculturalism they do not have to become Australian at all.  How do you think they achieve that?  Just by living here?  Gaining a citizenship certificate perhaps?  Is that truly what you think makes one Australian?

As for the insult and lie about me "condemning them wholesale" just where have I done that.  Do not flame me or lie about me.  I come here to discuss issues etc, not tolerate TROLLS.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Thu 16 Aug 2018, 10:04 am

There are but Three (3) conditions that face a Refugee arriving as a potential permanent resident in a new land.

◈  Assimilation

◈  Integration

◈  Departure

If either of the first two are not accepted, the third is unavoidable.

A Nation can bask in it's Ethnic Diversity, but it will eventually perish under the extremes of Multiculturalism.....
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Thu 16 Aug 2018, 4:37 pm

The towns where multiculturalism works, built on a foundation of tolerance
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Thu 16 Aug 2018, 4:45 pm

brian ross wrote:
The towns where multiculturalism works, built on a foundation of tolerance
Which towns are those, Brian? Can you cite an example where there are Aussies, Indians, Middle Eastern, Chinese, Vietnamese, Italians and Greeks all living together and speaking to each other in Pidgin English and still living a Happy Life without Welfare?
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Thu 16 Aug 2018, 6:18 pm

Neferti wrote:
brian ross wrote:
The towns where multiculturalism works, built on a foundation of tolerance
Which towns are those, Brian? Can you cite an example where there are Aussies, Indians, Middle Eastern, Chinese, Vietnamese, Italians and Greeks all living together and speaking to each other in Pidgin English and still living a Happy Life without Welfare?

Read the link I have provided:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-16/towns-where-multiculturalism-works-built-on-tolerance/10123058

I suggest that whomever is the Admin here should change the link colour to make it more obvious.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Fri 17 Aug 2018, 8:02 am

brian ross wrote:
Neferti wrote:
brian ross wrote:
The towns where multiculturalism works, built on a foundation of tolerance
Which towns are those, Brian? Can you cite an example where there are Aussies, Indians, Middle Eastern, Chinese, Vietnamese, Italians and Greeks all living together and speaking to each other in Pidgin English and still living a Happy Life without Welfare?

Read the link I have provided:  

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-16/towns-where-multiculturalism-works-built-on-tolerance/10123058

I suggest that whomever is the Admin here should change the link colour to make it more obvious.

Firstly, I am the Admin here. This is my Forum.

Secondly, you should check the Census information for the town of Katanning, WA mentioned in your ABC link.

The population of Katanning in 2016 (Census) was 3,687 and of that 64% (2,347) were born in Australia. Those born overseas were from:

Myanmar (154)
New Zealand (135)
England (93)
Thailand (72)
Afghanistan (66)

More information at the link below:

http://quickstats.censusdata.abs.gov.au/census_services/getproduct/census/2016/quickstat/SSC50736

Very "multicultural" wot?
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Fri 17 Aug 2018, 9:30 am

WA has never been very Multicultural at all in fact most migrants at one stage came from the UK.

I hardly think NZ and UK in your figures represent a different culture coming there.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Fri 17 Aug 2018, 2:14 pm

Kattaning is as Multicultural as anywhere in Oz. You can claim otherwise but the reality is that most of Sydney's problems are Sydney's making, no one elses. Outside of Australia, Multiculturalism is accepted. Inside, Sydney? I have no idea as I rarely visit that city. Perhaps the Government of NSW needs to stop thinking that "Australia" stops at the North Shore? Tsk, tsk.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Fri 17 Aug 2018, 10:30 pm

Rubbish re the Multicultural claim. Anyone looking at the numbers and stats prove that.
Sydney is a city, the largest in Australia. Immigrants flock there, Sydney not being a living entity has no choice about that at all.
I suggest since you "rarely" and only "visit" there you stick to commenting on places you actually know about.
Your comment re the "North Shore" just exposes your lack of knowledge about Sydney and NSW and its government.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Sat 18 Aug 2018, 8:24 am

Quote :
Two colours, one family: What life is like when your child looks quite different to you

Ms Gore-Birch is an Aboriginal woman and looks visibly dark skinned, but her children — 19-year-old Quincy-Rae, 18-year-old Scott, 12-year-old Abby, 10-year-old Jacob and 9-year-old Joshua — all have white skin.

She says she has never seen a difference, but others certainly do.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-18/aboriginal-parents-white-children-family-different-skin-colours/10107600

Really?  They all look aboriginal to me.



On the other hand, same story from ABC. This family.



Yes, there is a difference here. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Sat 18 Aug 2018, 11:18 am

"Ever been to WA in the last 15 years? I doubt it. The Boom has changed the state's population in a big, big, way."

So you agree with me that almost all WA migrants used to come from the UK. goodo...
Unlike you I would not make a comment on a place I have no idea about.
Check out the stats.
YOU continuously say Sydney is different to the rest of Australia, yes it is the largest multicultural centre in the country. We have "Kiwis and Poms" here too ya know.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Sat 18 Aug 2018, 2:35 pm

93% of Australians in a poll run Australia wide by A Current Affair with 35,000 responses wanted Multiculti abandoned.  Even now a large majority think our immigration numbers are way too big.


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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Sat 18 Aug 2018, 3:16 pm

Quote :
Multiculturalism isn’t all it’s cracked up to be

You are not alone if you are worried about our governments’ obsession with multiculturalism. Most people only know it as different foods, different languages and different music (including a quick dance like Zorba the Greek) but they personally not only reject the unpalatable bits that are patently inconsistent with liberal democratic life. They reject the idea that the neighbours who continue with those ancient practices are encouraged by government policies to do so.

Multiculturalism as a political force has been one of the most virulent left-wing ideological infections ever introduced into Australian politics and, like the ignorance on which it feeds, has been resistant to every attempted cure. One of the reasons has been the political influence that whole suburbs of a multicultural can exercise. As infections go, multiculturalism’s spread has been assisted by federal and state governments refusing to rub their hands of it, which have even created special ministries whose sole task is to metaphorically fertilise and water it, to protect that part of our garden in which it has taken root.

You probably noticed that it was the less skilled in the Australian workforce, the ones who live in the outer suburbs, who rejected the multi-million dollar multiculturalism marketing campaigns of the eighties and nineties by the ALP. Pauline Hanson was the first to identify this aspect and she paid a heavy price including gaol time brought on by the sheer vindictiveness. Controlled immigration was never the issue for ordinary Australians. What was disconcerting was uncontrolled immigration with the outright rejection by the left of any integration. Immigrants and refugees were to do their own thing because we are a multicultural society. Not, mind you, a liberal democracy; just a multicultural society.

In fact, just by calling Australia a multicultural society, they demonstrated that they don’t really understand the genie they were happy to let out of the bottle. Most Australians happily accept different cultural features: different foods, different dances, traditional celebrations, music. A culture, however, is much, much more than that. Theoretically, each people’s culture includes every part of their different ways of life: their arts, aesthetics, food, music, habits of life, their sacred beliefs, household management including their customs and taboos within the family structure and abhorrent practices like female genital mutilation.

As each culture is said to embrace the whole lifestyle of a people, that culture implicitly appeals to an authority to which a people look for justice. In Australia, we look to the law for justice and, as the Americans say, we place our faith in the constitution. But in countries from which many people come, the source of the authority for what is just can be anything from a tribal king, a religious figure, men or my cousin with guns, even the oldest family member – to name just a few. To what, then, will these people look for justice when they live in a foreign land where none of those things are present? Without those traditional figures being present, they will assume that there is no law or at least no law applicable to them; thus, the chant to the police a few days ago: “You can’t touch me.”

If you asked where was the authority when South Sudanese youths were rioting in Melbourne a few days ago, the answer would be back in South Sudan. A spokesman for the South Sudanese Federation was reported in The Weekend Australian as saying that it was ‘the kind of thing that most young people do.’ It possibly is in South Sudan (and now in Melbourne). The police spokesman’s explanation implicitly deferred to the government’s cultural sensitivity by citing a “move-on strategy” with no intention to arrest offenders.

That should have opened Victorians eyes about their socialist government’s bias: when a gang of Sudanese youths go on a rampage, trashing property and cars, threatening residents and throwing stones and bottle at police, the Victorian police will ignore it and move them on to do the same thing in another suburb. If a gang of elderly Christian pensioners were to hold a prayer meeting within 150 metres of a Melbourne abortion clinic (AKA legalised domestic violence clinic), they would be arrested, charged and if convicted, ordered to pay a fine they can’t afford and possibly sent to gaol. They would definitely be sent to gaol, however, if they moved on to do it in a different suburb.

The Victorian government has traded on its cultural and diversity sensitivity credentials for so long that it is impotent when confronted by young Sudanese men who are insensitive to the civilising effects of Australian law. The political problem that ‘culture’ and ‘multiculture’ cause is one that originated in the  universities and until that concept has been re-examined in the universities and finally debunked, it will continue to deny governments, if not the power, then the will to act in a practical and just way to both the new arrivals and the rest.

The original meaning of culture is still found in the word, agriculture, where it means cultivation of the soil, the conscious perfection of the soil and its crops in order to realise its natural potential. Culture was always the cultivation of nature, and when applied to human beings, it meant the cultivation of the mind. The current policy of ‘leave them alone to do what they like’ has no beneficial effect either on the new arrivals or the rest of society. Most immigrants come here for a better and more just life, one that only liberal democracy can provide. If they are to be left alone, new arrivals might just as well take matters into their own hands, which is not justice.

The left assumes that the varying cultural practices of different groups are all equal; the culture of those who obey the laws, equal to the culture of those who take to the streets as mob rule.  They might have taken a different course, had they known that the idea of culture, through an eighteenth-century German concept, found its full expression in Nazism.

The Spectator link
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Mon 20 Aug 2018, 10:20 am

The more I read, the more it seems........people are confusing Multi-Ethnicity with Multi-Culturalism & vice-versa......they are quite different.....& only one of those two will ensure Australia has an enriched future.  
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PostSubject: Re: Multiculturalism in Australia   Mon 20 Aug 2018, 2:05 pm

Time for you to explain the difference then... Smile
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