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 The Population Debate we've never had.

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Veritas

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PostSubject: The Population Debate we've never had.   Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:46 am

Dean Smith, Tony Abbott urge population debate to stop government perishing

by Andrew Tillett

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull is resisting calls from the backbench to hold an inquiry into population policy despite the number of people who call Australia home growing much more quickly than expected.

The nation's population is set to surge past 25 million people in early August, prompting Liberal Dean Smith to urge a slow down in the migration rate and former PM Tony Abbott repeating his call for the Coalition to be the party of lower migration.

As Mr Abbott claimed Labor was captive to "ethnic activists", Opposition leader Bill Shorten weighed in to say the number of visas being issued for temporary workers was "out of control" and affecting locals jobs.


While Senator Smith believes there were strong arguments to be made in favour of population growth, if left unchecked it risks eroding social cohesion and public confidence.

"It's clear anxiety is starting to emerge in Australia about population issues," Mr Smith told The Australian Financial Review.

"To delay [an inquiry] would unfairly dismiss the views of the electorate and create a vacuum that could be filled by more divisive Australian voices."

Senator Smith, who spearheaded the successful parliamentary push to legalise gay marriage, has written to Mr Turnbull to examine the inaccuracy of population projections, dispersal of new migrants across the country and ensure infrastructure spending is adequate.

It is understood Senator Smith has proposed either a Senate select committee or one made up of a cross section of community and business figures to examine population policy.

The first Intergenerational report, released by Peter Costello in 2002, projected Australia's population would be 25.3 million in 2042 but the updated report released five years later showed this mark would be reached in 2027, thanks to a combination of increases in birth rates, life expectancy and migration.

The 2010 report under Labor - which triggered debate about a "big Australia" - projected the population would hit 25.7 million in 2020.

Based on the Australian Bureau of Statistics' population clock, the 25 million people milestone will now be reached in early August.


Mr Turnbull said he would discuss Senator Smith's letter with him but defended the current migration settings.

"I have to say, the immigration program is being run better than ever," he said.

"Our borders are secure. In terms of the permanent migration program, we are taking no more, not one person more than the number that we need and want here in Australia. It's run in our national interest alone, nobody else's."

Mr Turnbull said last financial year's permanent migration increase of 163,000 people was the lowest for the past decade.

Mr Shorten said he would talk to Labor colleagues about potentially supporting an inquiry, more disturbing was the "explosion" in temporary migrants who can work here, which now number 1.6 million.

"What the government never talks about in immigration is the out-of-control increase in people coming to Australia with visas which give them work rights," he said.

Mr Abbott, who has campaigned for the government to cut migration to 110,000 people annually, argued population can be turned into a political weapon with Labor "in the grip of ethnic activists".

While Mr Abbott praised Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton for overseeing a "modest" reduction in permanent migration, the net overseas migration rate - which takes in both permanent and temporary migration - was still at a record level of 240,000 people.

"We've got to bring it down pretty sharply if we are going to start getting the downward pressure off wages, if we are going to take the upward pressure off housing prices and if we are going to unclog our infrastructure - our public transport is full, our roads are blocked - and if we are going to take some of the pressure off integration, particularly in places like Melbourne," Mr Abbott told 2GB.


Treasurer Scott Morrison pushed back earlier this year against Mr Abbott's demand to reduce immigration, saying it would cost the budget up to $5 billion in revenue over four years because of lower economic growth and reduction in skilled workers.
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Valkie



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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:44 pm

The biggest problem facing the whole world is overpopulation.
Just think of it.
If there were half the people we currently have.
There woukd be half the pollution
Half the waste
Half the use of resources
Half the destruction of land etc etc.

But with this comes the things that grubberment and multinationals do not want.
Half the income
Half the wars ( weapons sales)
Half the growth of their profits
Etc etc

The best thing we, as humans can do for this world, is to limit the population,
Or even reduce it.
Australia was doing well, with negative population growth, but pollies and multinationals don't want this.
They build on continual uncontrolled growth.

Just look at countries that have high population growth.
All the people are destitute
This is not what we want or need.

The end result is tgat we will destroy our world.
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Neferti
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:51 pm

Perhaps there should be another World War to eliminate a bunch of the excess population?

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Valkie



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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:53 am

That in itself exacerbates the problem.
We send the best and fittest off to die while keeping the sick, infirm and PARASITES safe.
Politicians seldom go to war, in fact the cowards often deliberately become politicians to avoid it, look at howard, perfect example.
The other problem is tgat we waste far too much of our resources murdering each other already, wasting more to kill and destroy is stupidity sublime.

What we simply need to do is restrict breeding.
First try voluntary sterilization, particularly in countries where there are insufficient resources to feed a growing population and they rely on handouts from other countries.
Failing this, compulsory sterilization, perhaps introduced into the water or even atmosphere.
In two generations, we would have a considerably smaller and more manageable population.
Then we could start to better plan how to breed to maintain a sustainable, sensible population.

No murder, no war, simply stop breeding.
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Veritas

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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:14 pm

Quote :
Australia was doing well, with negative population growth, but pollies and multinationals don't want this.
They build on continual uncontrolled growth.

I was unaware of that do you have a link to official figures that prove that anywhere.
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Valkie



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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:12 pm

Look at the stats.
Paul Keating wanted Australians to populate Australia.
"One for the dad, one for the mom and one for the country"
Because Australia's population was stagnating.
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Veritas

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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:48 pm

Costello wanted Australians to populate. In fact the cry has been for ages.... populate or perish.
Of course big business and multinationals want a big unsustainable Australian population because they care only for their bottom line.

I haven't seen any stats that show Australia has had a decreasing population or a stagnating population or a population trend where the natural birthrate was being overtaken by those dying and/or leaving.
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Veritas

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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:54 pm

ABS wrote:
The Australian population has more than doubled from 10.3 million in 1960 to 22.3 million in 2010. Since the start of the ERP measure in 1971, natural increase has been the main component of population growth in Australia.

ABS wrote:
In 1972, the excess of births over deaths resulted in a natural increase of 161,800 persons. Declining fertility led to a fall in natural increase to between 110,000 and 130,000 before peaking at 141,600 in 1991. Natural increase again dropped to a low of 114,400 persons in 2003. In recent years, due to an increase in births, there has been a rise in natural increase to 153,300 persons in 2009 and 149,700 in 2010. Since 2006, net overseas migration has contributed more people to the population than natural increase, adding 198,300 people in 2010.
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:32 pm

Valkie wrote:
Look at the stats.
Paul Keating wanted Australians to populate Australia.
"One for the dad, one for the mom and one for the country"
Because Australia's population was stagnating.

That was Costello, not Keating.
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:11 pm

brian ross wrote:
Valkie wrote:
Look at the stats.
Paul Keating wanted Australians to populate Australia.
"One for the dad, one for the mom and one for the country"
Because Australia's population was stagnating.

That was Costello, not Keating.
Yes, and every kid got pregnant and collected their $5000 per kid, then applied for Welfare.  Stupid idea by Costello.
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:15 pm

Neferti wrote:
brian ross wrote:
Valkie wrote:
Look at the stats.
Paul Keating wanted Australians to populate Australia.
"One for the dad, one for the mom and one for the country"
Because Australia's population was stagnating.

That was Costello, not Keating.
Yes, and every kid got pregnant and collected their $5000 per kid, then applied for Welfare.  Stupid idea by Costello.
Agreed, not terribly smart by the Tories on that one...
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:25 pm

Labor didn't cancel it when in power! It is still around except that it is not a $5000 one off but a monthly benefit? Still a stupid idea.
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:30 pm

The only one I happen to like is Zed ...

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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:15 am

It's becoming quite apparent that the people will never have a say on population and immigration.  the major parties will never allow it.
Good reason to create another major party or vote for the minor parties in bigger numbers.
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:59 pm

Veritas wrote:
It's becoming quite apparent that the people will never have a say on population and immigration.  the major parties will never allow it.
Good reason to create another major party or vote for the minor parties in bigger numbers.

Go for it. As long as you keep making demands which pander to the minority, fringe elements in our society your party will always remain a minor party. Tsk, tsk, just like the PHONies, Katter's, and so on. You will only appeal to the fringe elements who are hateful and intolerant - just like you.
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:19 pm

The ALP isn't a major Party without the Greens and Get Up. Very Happy

Oh, and before you start on about the Liberal Party, it has been in Coalition with the National/Country Party since  1922.


Quote :
The origins of the Coalition date back to the 1922 federal election


Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:11 pm

The major parties are the ALP and the Liberals. The National (Country) Party, the Greens are the largest of the minor parties. Then you have a gaggle of hangers on who are the minor-tiny parties, like the PHONies, Katter's Party, and so on.
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:49 pm

brian ross wrote:
Veritas wrote:
It's becoming quite apparent that the people will never have a say on population and immigration.  the major parties will never allow it.
Good reason to create another major party or vote for the minor parties in bigger numbers.

Go for it.  As long as you keep making demands which pander to the minority, fringe elements in our society your party will always remain a minor party.  Tsk, tsk, just like the PHONies, Katter's, and so on.  You will only appeal to the fringe elements who are hateful and intolerant - just like you.  

I don't have a party...
If you continue to flame and insult me for no reason I will ask for you to be removed from this site.
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:05 am

Just because Brian is a rusted on Labor voter, he thinks everybody has a "party" that they favour and always vote for. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:08 pm

Veritas wrote:
brian ross wrote:
Veritas wrote:
It's becoming quite apparent that the people will never have a say on population and immigration.  the major parties will never allow it.
Good reason to create another major party or vote for the minor parties in bigger numbers.

Go for it.  As long as you keep making demands which pander to the minority, fringe elements in our society your party will always remain a minor party.  Tsk, tsk, just like the PHONies, Katter's, and so on.  You will only appeal to the fringe elements who are hateful and intolerant - just like you.  

I don't have a party...
If you continue to flame and insult me for no reason I will ask for you to be removed from this site.

Where have I "flamed" you or "insulted" you?

You love to make accusations but you never back them with any proof.

You will know when I flame you or insult you. I haven't done either. I have criticised you and it appears you cannot handle criticism. Tsk, tsk.
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:11 pm

Neferti wrote:
Just because Brian is a rusted on Labor voter, he thinks everybody has a "party" that they favour and always vote for. Twisted Evil

I am not a "rusted on" anything. That you have chosen to use those words indicates you are unwilling to think about what I have been saying. Tsk, tsk.
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Veritas

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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:39 pm

brian ross wrote:
Veritas wrote:
brian ross wrote:
Veritas wrote:
It's becoming quite apparent that the people will never have a say on population and immigration.  the major parties will never allow it.
Good reason to create another major party or vote for the minor parties in bigger numbers.

Go for it.  As long as you keep making demands which pander to the minority, fringe elements in our society your party will always remain a minor party.  Tsk, tsk, just like the PHONies, Katter's, and so on.  You will only appeal to the fringe elements who are hateful and intolerant - just like you.  

I don't have a party...
If you continue to flame and insult me for no reason I will ask for you to be removed from this site.

Where have I "flamed" you or "insulted" you?

You love to make accusations but you never back them with any proof.

You will know when I flame you or insult you.  I haven't done either.  I have criticised you and it appears you cannot handle criticism.  Tsk, tsk.  
You've already had a post removed.
You flame lots of people all the time.
Insults appear regularly too.
Now you have created an off topic post I have to answer in which you make personal attacks through lies.
You ruin every site you post too.
Well done

You just said this...

Go for it.  As long as you keep making demands which pander to the minority, fringe elements in our society your party will always remain a minor party.

That is a lie, I do not have a party.  I am a swinging voter.  YOU are a troll and a liar.

Tsk, tsk, just like the PHONies, Katter's, and so on. You will only appeal to the fringe elements who are hateful and intolerant - just like you.

In case you missed it that is an insult a lie and ad hom...  You just pack them altogether.

Now run along TROLL your guilt is plain to see.  THE PROOF IS THERE FOR ALL TO SEE.
I won't bother listing all the other posts you have created that reflect the same bad behaviour to other posters.


Last edited by Veritas on Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:54 pm

Veritas wrote:
brian ross wrote:
Veritas wrote:
brian ross wrote:
Veritas wrote:
It's becoming quite apparent that the people will never have a say on population and immigration.  the major parties will never allow it.
Good reason to create another major party or vote for the minor parties in bigger numbers.

Go for it.  As long as you keep making demands which pander to the minority, fringe elements in our society your party will always remain a minor party.  Tsk, tsk, just like the PHONies, Katter's, and so on.  You will only appeal to the fringe elements who are hateful and intolerant - just like you.  

I don't have a party...
If you continue to flame and insult me for no reason I will ask for you to be removed from this site.

Where have I "flamed" you or "insulted" you?

You love to make accusations but you never back them with any proof.

You will know when I flame you or insult you.  I haven't done either.  I have criticised you and it appears you cannot handle criticism.  Tsk, tsk.  
You've already had a post removed.

Really? Oh, dear. And I was not advised it had been removed. Oh, well, it is obvious what sort of administration we will experience here, hey?

Quote :

You flame lots of people all the time.

Have I "flamed" you, here? Really? I can't see it. You appear to be reacting to valid criticism of your position. Mmmm.

Quote :

Insults appear regularly too.

Where? I can't see them. Funny how you get to insult me...

Quote :

Now you have created an off topic post I have to answer in wish you make personal attacks through lies.
You ruin every site you post too.
Well done

Where as you do exactly that and that is why you run away when faced with criticism of your position. Funny that...

Quote :

You just said this...

Go for it.  As long as you keep making demands which pander to the minority, fringe elements in our society your party will always remain a minor party.

That is a lie, I do not have a party.  I am a swinging voter.  YOU are a troll and a liar.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Shouting and ranting again? I suppose it isn't unusual for you, now is it?

You proposed setting up a party. That is the "your party" I was referring to. Such a silly, silly, person you are.

Quote :

Tsk, tsk, just like the PHONies, Katter's, and so on. You will only appeal to the fringe elements who are hateful and intolerant - just like you.

In case you missed it that is an insult a lie and ad hom...  You just pack them altogether.

The PHONies and Katter and other minor parties cater to the fringe elements who hateful and intolerant. QED.

Quote :

Now r\un along TROLL your guilt is plain to see.  THE PROOF IS THERE FOR ALL TO SEE.
I won't bother listing all the other posts you have created that reflect the same bad behaviour to other posters.

You do enjoy labeling people don't you? So much for your superior, "non-insulting" position on such matters. You rarely debate anything, preferring to label people "troll" than actually answer their criticism. Funny that, hey? Tsk, tsk.
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:44 am

brian ross wrote:


Really?  Oh, dear.  And I was not advised it had been removed.  Oh, well, it is obvious what sort of administration we will experience here, hey?

I don't have to "advise" you about anything.  However, I shall.  You are already disrupting this Forum and are very close to getting permanently banned. Take your TROLL attacks elsewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: The Population Debate we've never had.   Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:01 pm

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